ThinkWiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Problem with fan noise

2005-09-29T17:46:40Z

85.124.170.206:

== Problem with fan noise on R51 1829 L7G (ATI M9) ==

On my R51 the fan is behaving like this:

* > 45C -> fan on;
* < 38C -> fan off.

By using cpufreq + laptop_mode + Xorg DynamicClocks + WiFi power management, I get the fan stopped time to time, but only for 3 minutes time (transition from 38 C -> 45 C). The cooling down cycle is taking 20 minutes in the best case.

I knew about the 'ibm_acpi experimental=1' trick, but in my opinion this is not very useful since nobody can guarantee that a temperature greater then 45 C will not damage the laptop and in the same time the transition time is very short (the laptop gets hot fast without fan).

== Thinkpad T42 Radeon Mobility M7 ==

When Xorg is running, the fan is always one and pretty loud !
Setting DynamicClocks does not help

it's clear that the GPU is the problem on the thinkpad :

after 10minutes with the fan off
temperatures: 44 47 33 52 32 -128 24 -128

1: CPU
2: Mini PCI Module
3: HDD
4: GPU
5: Battery
6: N/A
7: Battery
8: N/A

Controlling the fan speed would be really cool !

What is the maximum temperature not to cross ?

----
Older versions of xorg (i.e. 6.7.0) don't seem to be able to use the DynamicClocks option although it's set in the xorg.conf. Search the log to find out if it's really used.

== Thinkpad R32 with Radeon Mobility M6 ==

Updating xorg-x11 from 6.7.0 to 6.8.2 and using Speedstep (with the ondemand module in this case) helped cooling the system down significantly:

* before updating the CPU was ~62 C in idle state, and got very near the critical temperature (72 C) during heavy load - I even got some freezes because of the heat ;)
* after the update the CPU is ~54 C in idle state, and still gets to about 68 C while under heavy load

The second sensor (which may be the GPU) is somehow fixed to 50 C (maybe a bug?)

The fan on the R32 is behaving like this:

* > 61 -> fan in state 2 (quite noisy)
* < 55 -> fan in state 1 (less noisy :) )

But I remember using my old SuSE distribution with kernel 2.4.16, apm and some old x11 version the fan actually stopped completely from time to time.

Concerning the maximum temperature of the CPU, I found that the critical temperature on the R32 for the CPU sensor is 72 C
(using {{cmdroot|cat /proc/acpi/thermal_zone/THM0/trip_points }} )

== Fan Control script: more save version ==

ibm_acpi works well on my R50 and R51. But to rely on it completely, I modified the script in two ways:

1. It catches verious signals and turns the fan on before it quits

2. It turns off the fan under very strict conditions, leaving it on when unexpected errors occur.

Here is my script:

#!/bin/sh

# july 2005 Erik Groeneveld, erik@cq2.nl
# More conservatiev and saver version
# It make sure the fan is on in case of errors
# and only turns it off when all temps are ok.

IBM_ACPI=/proc/acpi/ibm
THERMOMETER=$IBM_ACPI/thermal
FAN=$IBM_ACPI/fan
MAXTRIPPOINT=65
MINTRIPPOINT=60
TRIPPOINT=$MINTRIPPOINT

echo fancontrol: Thermometer: $THERMOMETER, Fan: $FAN
echo fancontrol: Current `cat $THERMOMETER`
echo fancontrol: Controlling temperatures between $MINTRIPPOINT and $MAXTRIPPOINT degrees.

# Make sure the fan is turned on when the script crashes or is killed
trap "echo enable > $FAN; exit 0" HUP KILL INT ABRT STOP QUIT SEGV TERM

while [ 1 ];
do
command=enable
temperatures=`sed s/temperatures:// < $THERMOMETER`
result=
for temp in $temperatures
do
test $temp -le $TRIPPOINT && result=$result.Ok
done
if [ "$result" = ".Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok.Ok" ]; then
command=disable
TRIPPOINT=$MAXTRIPPOINT
else
command=enable
TRIPPOINT=$MINTRIPPOINT
fi
echo $command > $FAN
# Temperature ramps up quickly, so pick this not too large:
sleep 5
done

----
I added this script to the other ones. Don't wander about my talk edits, i didn't realize i was on the talk page. [[User:Wyrfel|Wyrfel]] 01:48, 13 Aug 2005 (CEST)
----

== X41 ==

Same fan problem here on the X41. Once it starts it won't stop (unless it is _very_ cold outside). Undervolting the CPU doesn't help - still the same problem.

== Fan speed control? ==

Only the X31 and X40 have an ACPI method for controlling the FAN speed (this is why ibm_acpi provides this functionality just for these models).

What will happen if we take the "FANS" method from the [http://acpi.sourceforge.net/dsdt/view.php?id=219 X40 DSDT], paste it into a iasl-disassembled DSDT of (say) a T43, recompile it and [http://gaugusch.at/kernel.shtml tell the kernel] to use the patched DSDT? ibm_acpi will present the functionality, but it may or may not work.

--[[User:Thinker|Thinker]] 16:16, 28 Sep 2005 (CEST)

Any risk of damaging the hardware when doing this? E.g. what does occur if the system overheats - will the CPU be destroyed are does it automatically switch of? As I've just bought a new X41 I don't want to take any stupid risks - but otherwise I'd say let's try it out.

--gst Thu Sep 29 18:14:13 CEST 2005

I think Intel CPUs have some built-in thermal protection, but I'd hate to test it. And of course, any fiddling with the hardware at this level might damage it. That said, when the CPU is mostly idle it keeps a reasonable temperature even when the fan is disabled, so as long as you keep an eye on both the CPU usage meter and /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal, things should be pretty safe temperature-wise. For extra safety you can force the CPU to its lowest speed via {{path|/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq}}.
--[[User:Thinker|Thinker]] 18:33, 29 Sep 2005 (CEST)

== Further information ==

I've just found a very interesting thread regarding the same issue on HP notebooks. IMO it provides many insight information about heat/fan problems in general, the URL is: http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer.do?threadId=853249
Especially the posts by the HP engineer "Andy Fisher" are very interesting. IBM should be able to provide the same BIOS fix as HP did (maybe I should have bought an HP notebook instead of a Thinkpad?).

I've also contacted IBM/Lenovo support via the website about the fan issue. Maybe it helps when others do this as well (especially people who bought larger quantities) so that this issue is taken serious by Lenovo. Is there already any official response to this problem?

--gst Thu Sep 29 19:40:34 CEST 2005

Talk:Problem with fan noise

2005-09-29T17:43:42Z

85.124.170.206:

Problem with fan noise

2005-09-29T16:41:12Z

85.124.170.206:

Information about the fan noise problem in Thinkpad models from 2003/2004/2005.

==Problem description==

There seem to be two different occurances of the problem (or two different problems).

===acceleration problem:===
The Thinkpad Fan accelerates in regular intervals, making an annoying noise.

===always on problem:===
The Fan is always on, even though the processor is rather cool.

==Affected Models==

===acceleration problem:===
*Thinkpad {{T40}}, {{T40p}}, {{T41}}, {{T42}}(?)

===always on problem:===
*Thinkpad {{T40}}, {{T40p}}, {{T41}}, {{T41p}}, {{T42}}, {{T42p}}, {{T43}}, {{T43p}}
*Thinkpad {{R32}}, {{R50}}, {{R50p}}, {{R51}}, {{R52}}
*Thinkpad {{X32}}, {{X40}}, {{X41}}
*Thinkpad {{A31p}}
*Thinkpad {{770X}}

==Affected Operating Systems==

===acceleration problem:===
*Linux, all flavours

===always on problem:===
*Linux, all flavours
*FreeBSD 5.3
*OpenBSD 3.7 (Tested with X40)
*Windows XP
*Windows 2000 pro

==Status==

===acceleration problem:===
IBM released an update to the embedded controller program that seems to at least partially solve this problem:

Version 3.03 - 1RHT70WW
NOTE: This version of Embedded Controller Program will only work with BIOS Version 3.06f (or higher).
* (Fix) Reduced Fan noise in some models.

The update can be found here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-50279

===always on problem:===
The problem is yet unsolved. But see the partial fix below.

IBM made a statement regarding this on their homepage:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-56504.html

It seems that it's a feature of centrino - http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2004-September/019737.html
Perhaps it's fixable by adding the fans and temps to the dsdt?

==Solutions==

===acceleration problem:===

====Replacing the fan====
Some people reported that they replaced the original fan against one of a similar notebook without the problem has worked for them, i.e. changing a {{T41}}s fan against one from a {{T41p}}.

====BIOS upgrade====
You can try upgrading your embedded controller program to version 3.03 or newer.

The update can be found here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-50279

===always on problem:===

It seems like for some people a combination of enabling dynamic frequency scaling and using the most recent radeon drivers (from xorg 6.8.x) with the DynamicClocks option enabled helped lowing the fan rotation and hence making it more quiet.

Also the fglrx driver from ATI is said to show the same effect when used together with dynamic frequency scaling.

On a 770X the fan can be fully controlled through ACPI. Thermal Zone THM5 (possibly the battery/charging circuit, it's definitely warmer when using 5v PCMCIA cards and AC) triggers it to turn on and not ever off by design. Can be solved by a custom DSDT, which also makes use of the variable-speed features of the fan (will release this once I've finished tweaking and testing it).

I can confirm that on my R51, the graphics card seems to be the problem. The fan keeps running most of the time even with AC on, but even though I activated DynamicClocks (with the radeon driver), I can see in /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal that the GPU (4th value) is at 52-53Â°. The fan stops running as soon as the temperature gets down to 50 degrees and starts again at 53. While debugging, I seemed(!) to be able to reduce the temperature together with the resolution (e.g. "xrandr -s 2" to get from 1400x1050 to 1024x768) or by switching off the graphics with "xset dpms force off". The bottom line is that the below "partial fix" won't work because the GPU temperature is the problem.

The GPU also seems to be the culprit on the t43p. Even with the fan always on (with speeds of around 4K reported in /proc/acpi/ibm/fan), the temperature never drops below 55. This is with the Xorg driver and DynamicClocks=on. With the ATI's fglrx driver, the GPU temp seems slightly higher (although I haven't performed a careful comparison). Without the fan, the temperature very quickly climbs to above 60.

====partial fix:====
{{WARN|This circumvents the BIOS fan control, so be careful and use at your own risk! Don't toast your ThinkPad.}}

When loading [[ibm-acpi]] v0.11 with experimental switch (modprobe ibm_acpi experimental=1), it is possible to read and write the status of fan:

'''#cat /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''
status: enabled
speed: 3580
commands: enable, disable

'''#echo disable > /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''

'''cat /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''
status: disabled
speed: 0
commands: enable, disable

But the fan will then '''never''' wake up. So, we need a [[ACPI fan control script|small script]] witch is constantly checking the temperature and setting the fan on/off when needed.

On my T41 (gentoo-sources-2.6.11.11 ) I noticed that after unloading the fan module the fan noise stopped. With the module loaded the fan was working even at very low cpu temperatures, without the module it's ok so far.

Talk:Problem with fan noise

2005-09-29T16:16:52Z

85.124.170.206:

Talk:Problems with SATA and Linux

2005-09-28T18:04:08Z

85.124.170.206:

regarding the "BIOS error 2010 on user-installed hard disk":
the text says that corruption occurs if you use a harddisk without the specific ibm bios. would be interesting if it is possible to fix this problem in the kernel so that you can use any disk and the kernel doesn't use specific ATA commands which are known to cause problems.

in the tabook i didn't find any specification of the SATA bridge. it would be interesting:
1) what type it is
2) if it is fixed on the mainboard or if it is possible to solder in a new one

Problem with hard drive clicking

2005-09-28T14:14:20Z

85.124.170.206:

Many users have reported a '''problem with hard drive clicking''', particularly with Hitachi's 5k80 series which currently ships with new T series Thinkpads. The clicks occur rapidly, and are quiet but noticeable. The clicks seem to happen when the drive is idle. Some users report that defragmenting their drive helps. Others recommend using Hitachi's drive feature tool to increase the acoustic management level, and/or set power management settings.

Some other users report that nothing they try has solved the clicking problem. It is not known whether the problem is a sign of impending drive failure. Since the problem is so prevalent, if it turns out to coincide with high drive failure rates then Hitachi has another major drive quality problem to deal with, after the Deskstar 75GXP problem.

IBM's latest posted firmware, A5DA, does not appear to solve the problem.

===Possible solution (Linux)===
The clicking noise apparently occurs when the drive is parking its heads (and ramping them off the drive surface in the process) after a timeout after the last disk access. Try turning off power management for the drive; that should stop the drive from parking the heads except when turning off:

# hdparm -B 255 /dev/hda

You can also try

# hdparm -B 254 /dev/hda

which doesn't turn power management off, but is the least agressive setting. So far, that has solved my problem with the disk clicking on my G41, with a HTS548080M9AT00 drive. That, I presume, is an Hitachi.

===Another Possible Solution===

IBM, when notified about this occurance, may replace the drive with a Fujitsu 5k 80GB hard drive, as to them the sound is indicative of a potential hard drive failure.

==External links==
*[http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm Hitachi Global Storage Technologies Downloads] - The drive feature tool may help with this problem.
*[http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=7462 Thread on thinkpads.com]
*[http://notebookforums.com/showthread.php?t=46058 Thread on notebookforums.com]
*[http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?p=143203 Thread on silentpcreview.com]
*[http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=15769 Another Thread on thinkpads.com]
*[http://www.tabletpcbuzz.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28538&whichpage=1 Thread on tabletpcbuzz.com]
*[http://thinkpad-forum.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2255 German Thread on thinkpad-forum.de (Containing an interesting remark about a possible problem with the Cache)]

[[Category:T40]] [[Category:T41]] [[Category:T42]] [[Category:T43]] [[Category:X41]]

Talk:Problem with fan noise

2005-09-28T09:40:42Z

85.124.170.206:

Category:X41

2005-09-28T08:57:23Z

85.124.170.206: /* Features */

{| width="100%"
|style="vertical-align:top" |
<div style="margin: 0; margin-right:10px; border: 1px solid #dfdfdf; padding: 0em 1em 1em 1em; background-color:#F8F8FF; align:right;">
=== ThinkPad X41 ===
This pages gives an overview of all ThinkPad X41 related topics.
==== Features ====
* [[Intel Pentium M (Dothan)]] 1.5GHz LV CPU
* [[Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900]]
** 12.1" TFT display with 1024x768 resolution
* 256, 512MB or 1GB memory standard
* 1.8" 40 or 60GB PATA HDD
* [[AD1981B]] AC'97 Audio controller
* Broadcom 10/100/1000 Ethernet controller
* CDC slot with one of the following:
** [[IBM Integrated 56K Modem (MDC-2)]]
** [[IBM Integrated Bluetooth IV with 56K Modem (BMDC-3)]]
* MiniPCI slot with one of the following:
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
* [[Embedded Security Subsystem|IBM Embedded Security Subsystem 2.0]]
* [[Active Protection System|IBM Active Protection System]]
* [[Integrated Fingerprint Reader]] in select models
* SD Card slot with IO support
* Single Type II Cardbus slot
</div>
|style="vertical-align:top" |
[[image:ThinkPadX40.jpg|ThinkPad X41]]
|}
* [ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/39t6186.pdf ThinkPad X41 - Hardware Maintenance Manual (July 2005)] (6,101,513 Bytes)

[[Category:Models]]

Category:X41

2005-09-28T08:55:56Z

85.124.170.206: /* Features */

{| width="100%"
|style="vertical-align:top" |
<div style="margin: 0; margin-right:10px; border: 1px solid #dfdfdf; padding: 0em 1em 1em 1em; background-color:#F8F8FF; align:right;">
=== ThinkPad X41 ===
This pages gives an overview of all ThinkPad X41 related topics.
==== Features ====
* [[Intel Pentium M (Dothan)]] 1.5GHz LV CPU
* [[Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900]]
** 12.1" TFT display with 1024x768 resolution
* 256 or 512MB memory standard
* 1.8" 40 or 60GB PATA HDD
* [[AD1981B]] AC'97 Audio controller
* Broadcom 10/100/1000 Ethernet controller
* CDC slot with one of the following:
** [[IBM Integrated 56K Modem (MDC-2)]]
** [[IBM Integrated Bluetooth IV with 56K Modem (BMDC-3)]]
* MiniPCI slot with one of the following:
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
* [[Embedded Security Subsystem|IBM Embedded Security Subsystem 2.0]]
* [[Active Protection System|IBM Active Protection System]]
* [[Integrated Fingerprint Reader]] in select models
* SD Card slot with IO support
* Single Type II Cardbus slot
</div>
|style="vertical-align:top" |
[[image:ThinkPadX40.jpg|ThinkPad X41]]
|}
* [ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/39t6186.pdf ThinkPad X41 - Hardware Maintenance Manual (July 2005)] (6,101,513 Bytes)

[[Category:Models]]

Category talk:X41

2005-09-27T06:23:52Z

85.124.170.206:

the features list a "40 or 60GB SATA HDD". is this really a SATA disk? IMO it seems that the X40/X41 series just uses a SATA controller with a SATA/PATA bridge and a normal PATA disk.

Category:X41

2005-09-22T21:52:37Z

85.124.170.206: /* Features */

{| width="100%"
|style="vertical-align:top" |
<div style="margin: 0; margin-right:10px; border: 1px solid #dfdfdf; padding: 0em 1em 1em 1em; background-color:#F8F8FF; align:right;">
=== ThinkPad X41 ===
This pages gives an overview of all ThinkPad X41 related topics.
==== Features ====
* [[Intel Pentium M (Dothan)]] 1.5GHz LV CPU
* [[Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900]]
** 12.1" TFT display with 1024x768 resolution
* 256 or 512MB memory standard
* 40 or 60GB SATA HDD
* [[AD1981B]] AC'97 Audio controller
* Broadcom 10/100/1000 Ethernet controller
* CDC slot with one of the following:
** [[IBM Integrated 56K Modem (MDC-2)]]
** [[IBM Integrated Bluetooth IV with 56K Modem (BMDC-3)]]
* MiniPCI slot with one of the following:
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
* [[Embedded Security Subsystem|IBM Embedded Security Subsystem 2.0]]
* [[Active Protection System|IBM Active Protection System]]
* [[Integrated Fingerprint Reader]] in select models
* SD Card slot with IO support
* Single Type II Cardbus slot
</div>
|style="vertical-align:top" |
[[image:ThinkPadX40.jpg|ThinkPad X41]]
|}
* [ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/39t6186.pdf ThinkPad X41 - Hardware Maintenance Manual (July 2005)] (6,101,513 Bytes)

[[Category:Models]]

Problem with fan noise

2005-09-22T18:51:11Z

85.124.170.206: /* always on problem: */

Information about the fan noise problem in Thinkpad models from 2003/2004.

==Problem description==

There seem to be two different occurances of the problem (or two different problems).

===acceleration problem:===
The Thinkpad Fan accelerates in regular intervals, making an annoying noise.

===always on problem:===
The Fan is always on, even though the processor is rather cool.

==Affected Models==

===acceleration problem:===
*Thinkpad {{T40}}, {{T40p}}, {{T41}}, {{T42}}(?)

===always on problem:===
*Thinkpad {{T40}}, {{T40p}}, {{T41}}, {{T41p}}, {{T42}}, {{T42p}}, {{T43}}, {{T43p}}
*Thinkpad {{R32}}, {{R50}}, {{R50p}}, {{R51}}, {{R52}}
*Thinkpad {{X32}}, {{X40}}, {{X41}}
*Thinkpad {{A31p}}
*Thinkpad {{770X}}

==Affected Operating Systems==

===acceleration problem:===
*Linux, all flavours

===always on problem:===
*Linux, all flavours
*FreeBSD 5.3
*OpenBSD 3.7 (Tested with X40)
*Windows XP
*Windows 2000 pro

==Status==

===acceleration problem:===
IBM released an update to the embedded controller program that seems to at least partially solve this problem:

Version 3.03 - 1RHT70WW
NOTE: This version of Embedded Controller Program will only work with BIOS Version 3.06f (or higher).
* (Fix) Reduced Fan noise in some models.

The update can be found here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-50279

===always on problem:===
The problem is yet unsolved. But see the partial fix below.

IBM made a statement regarding this on their homepage:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-56504.html

It seems that it's a feature of centrino - http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2004-September/019737.html
Perhaps it's fixable by adding the fans and temps to the dsdt?

==Solutions==

===acceleration problem:===

====Replacing the fan====
Some people reported that they replaced the original fan against one of a similar notebook without the problem has worked for them, i.e. changing a {{T41}}s fan against one from a {{T41p}}.

====BIOS upgrade====
You can try upgrading your embedded controller program to version 3.03 or newer.

The update can be found here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-50279

===always on problem:===

It seems like for some people a combination of enabling dynamic frequency scaling and using the most recent radeon drivers (from xorg 6.8.x) with the DynamicClocks option enabled helped lowing the fan rotation and hence making it more quiet.

Also the fglrx driver from ATI is said to show the same effect when used together with dynamic frequency scaling.

On a 770X the fan can be fully controlled through ACPI. Thermal Zone THM5 (possibly the battery/charging circuit, it's definitely warmer when using 5v PCMCIA cards and AC) triggers it to turn on and not ever off by design. Can be solved by a custom DSDT, which also makes use of the variable-speed features of the fan (will release this once I've finished tweaking and testing it).

I can confirm that on my R51, the graphics card seems to be the problem. The fan keeps running most of the time even with AC on, but even though I activated DynamicClocks (with the radeon driver), I can see in /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal that the GPU (4th value) is at 52-53Â°. The fan stops running as soon as the temperature gets down to 50 degrees and starts again at 53. While debugging, I seemed(!) to be able to reduce the temperature together with the resolution (e.g. "xrandr -s 2" to get from 1400x1050 to 1024x768) or by switching off the graphics with "xset dpms force off". The bottom line is that the below "partial fix" won't work because the GPU temperature is the problem.

The GPU also seems to be the culprit on the t43p. Even with the fan always on (with speeds of around 4K reported in /proc/acpi/ibm/fan), the temperature never drops below 55. This is with the Xorg driver and DynamicClocks=on. With the ATI's fglrx driver, the GPU temp seems slightly higher (although I haven't performed a careful comparison). Without the fan, the temperature very quickly climbs to above 60.

====partial fix:====
{{WARN|This circumvents the BIOS fan control, so be careful and use at your own risk! Don't toast your ThinkPad.}}

When loading [[ibm-acpi]] v0.11 with experimental switch (modprobe ibm_acpi experimental=1), it is possible to read and write the status of fan:

'''#cat /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''
status: enabled
speed: 3580
commands: enable, disable

'''#echo disable > /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''

'''cat /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''
status: disabled
speed: 0
commands: enable, disable

But the fan will then '''never''' wake up. So, we need a [[ACPI fan control script|small script]] witch is constantly checking the temperature and setting the fan on/off when needed.

On my T41 (gentoo-sources-2.6.11.11 ) I noticed that after unloading the fan module the fan noise stopped. With the module loaded the fan was working even at very low cpu temperatures, without the module it's ok so far.

Category:X41

2005-09-22T18:44:50Z

85.124.170.206: /* Features */

{| width="100%"
|style="vertical-align:top" |
<div style="margin: 0; margin-right:10px; border: 1px solid #dfdfdf; padding: 0em 1em 1em 1em; background-color:#F8F8FF; align:right;">
=== ThinkPad X41 ===
This pages gives an overview of all ThinkPad X41 related topics.
==== Features ====
* [[Intel Pentium M (Dothan)]] 1.5GHz or 1.6GHz LV CPU
* [[Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900]]
** 12.1" TFT display with 1024x768 resolution
* 256 or 512MB memory standard
* 40 or 60GB SATA HDD
* [[AD1981B]] AC'97 Audio controller
* Broadcom 10/100/1000 Ethernet controller
* CDC slot with one of the following:
** [[IBM Integrated 56K Modem (MDC-2)]]
** [[IBM Integrated Bluetooth IV with 56K Modem (BMDC-3)]]
* MiniPCI slot with one of the following:
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
** [[Intel PRO/Wireless 2915ABG Mini-PCI Adapter]]
* [[Embedded Security Subsystem|IBM Embedded Security Subsystem 2.0]]
* [[Active Protection System|IBM Active Protection System]]
* [[Integrated Fingerprint Reader]] in select models
* SD Card slot with IO support
* Single Type II Cardbus slot
</div>
|style="vertical-align:top" |
[[image:ThinkPadX40.jpg|ThinkPad X41]]
|}
* [ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/39t6186.pdf ThinkPad X41 - Hardware Maintenance Manual (July 2005)] (6,101,513 Bytes)

[[Category:Models]]

Problem with fan noise

2005-09-21T19:25:47Z

85.124.170.206: /* always on problem: */

Information about the fan noise problem in Thinkpad models from 2003/2004.

==Problem description==

There seem to be two different occurances of the problem (or two different problems).

===acceleration problem:===
The Thinkpad Fan accelerates in regular intervals, making an annoying noise.

===always on problem:===
The Fan is always on, even though the processor is rather cool.

==Affected Models==

===acceleration problem:===
*Thinkpad {{T40}}, {{T40p}}, {{T41}}, {{T42}}(?)

===always on problem:===
*Thinkpad {{T40}}, {{T40p}}, {{T41}}, {{T41p}}, {{T42}}, {{T42p}}, {{T43}}, {{T43p}}
*Thinkpad {{R32}}, {{R50}}, {{R50p}}, {{R51}}, {{R52}}
*Thinkpad {{X40}}, {{X41}}, {{X32}}
*Thinkpad {{A31p}}
*Thinkpad {{770X}}

==Affected Operating Systems==

===acceleration problem:===
*Linux, all flavours

===always on problem:===
*Linux, all flavours
*FreeBSD 5.3
*OpenBSD 3.7 (Tested with X40)
*Windows XP
*Windows 2000 pro

==Status==

===acceleration problem:===
IBM released an update to the embedded controller program that seems to at least partially solve this problem:

Version 3.03 - 1RHT70WW
NOTE: This version of Embedded Controller Program will only work with BIOS Version 3.06f (or higher).
* (Fix) Reduced Fan noise in some models.

The update can be found here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-50279

===always on problem:===
The problem is yet unsolved. But see the partial fix below.

IBM made a statement regarding this on their homepage:
http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-56504.html

It seems that it's a feature of centrino - http://mailman.linux-thinkpad.org/pipermail/linux-thinkpad/2004-September/019737.html
Perhaps it's fixable by adding the fans and temps to the dsdt?

==Solutions==

===acceleration problem:===

====Replacing the fan====
Some people reported that they replaced the original fan against one of a similar notebook without the problem has worked for them, i.e. changing a {{T41}}s fan against one from a {{T41p}}.

====BIOS upgrade====
You can try upgrading your embedded controller program to version 3.03 or newer.

The update can be found here: http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?lndocid=MIGR-50279

===always on problem:===

It seems like for some people a combination of enabling dynamic frequency scaling and using the most recent radeon drivers (from xorg 6.8.x) with the DynamicClocks option enabled helped lowing the fan rotation and hence making it more quiet.

Also the fglrx driver from ATI is said to show the same effect when used together with dynamic frequency scaling.

On a 770X the fan can be fully controlled through ACPI. Thermal Zone THM5 (possibly the battery/charging circuit, it's definitely warmer when using 5v PCMCIA cards and AC) triggers it to turn on and not ever off by design. Can be solved by a custom DSDT, which also makes use of the variable-speed features of the fan (will release this once I've finished tweaking and testing it).

I can confirm that on my R51, the graphics card seems to be the problem. The fan keeps running most of the time even with AC on, but even though I activated DynamicClocks (with the radeon driver), I can see in /proc/acpi/ibm/thermal that the GPU (4th value) is at 52-53Â°. The fan stops running as soon as the temperature gets down to 50 degrees and starts again at 53. While debugging, I seemed(!) to be able to reduce the temperature together with the resolution (e.g. "xrandr -s 2" to get from 1400x1050 to 1024x768) or by switching off the graphics with "xset dpms force off". The bottom line is that the below "partial fix" won't work because the GPU temperature is the problem.

The GPU also seems to be the culprit on the t43p. Even with the fan always on (with speeds of around 4K reported in /proc/acpi/ibm/fan), the temperature never drops below 55. This is with the Xorg driver and DynamicClocks=on. With the ATI's fglrx driver, the GPU temp seems slightly higher (although I haven't performed a careful comparison). Without the fan, the temperature very quickly climbs to above 60.

====partial fix:====
{{WARN|This circumvents the BIOS fan control, so be careful and use at your own risk! Don't toast your ThinkPad.}}

When loading [[ibm-acpi]] v0.11 with experimental switch (modprobe ibm_acpi experimental=1), it is possible to read and write the status of fan:

'''#cat /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''
status: enabled
speed: 3580
commands: enable, disable

'''#echo disable > /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''

'''cat /proc/acpi/ibm/fan'''
status: disabled
speed: 0
commands: enable, disable

But the fan will then '''never''' wake up. So, we need a [[ACPI fan control script|small script]] witch is constantly checking the temperature and setting the fan on/off when needed.

On my T41 (gentoo-sources-2.6.11.11 ) I noticed that after unloading the fan module the fan noise stopped. With the module loaded the fan was working even at very low cpu temperatures, without the module it's ok so far.

Buyers Guide

2005-09-17T19:48:01Z

85.124.170.206: /* Special deals for certain customer groups */

This page is dedicated to hints about buying used or new ThinkPad models. You can find notes about typical weaknesses of used ThinkPads here and other things you should care about when choosing a ThinkPad and where to buy it.

==Only some random notes so far==
*{{390X}} models with 15" display are said to have weak display cables that tend to break.
*{{A30}}, {{A30p}}, {{A31}}, {{A31p}} seem to have a mechanical design that can cause the motherboard to break. At least there are a significant number of reports of broken motherboards on these models.
*{{T30}} had a problem with memory sockets detaching from the system board. IBM replaced these free of charge even after warranties expired.

==Build it yourself and save money==
Lenovo offers more flexibility than any other major manufacturer of laptop computers, at least that I know of. Their "configure-to-order" (CTO) offerings let you build the computer you want, without paying for anything you don't want. The basic CTO includes the mainboard and CPU, but no RAM, disk, mini-PCI cards, software, or other add-ons. You can even get a laptop in a CTO configuration.

I built my {{X32}} notebook with 1GB RAM, 60GB 5400RPM hard drive, USB DVD-ROM CD-RW drive, and 802.11a/b/g mini-PCI for a grand total of US$1,206, including tax and shipping.

Start with the complete list of [https://www-03.ibm.com/lenovo/shop/personalpages/public/public/products/dsp_product_list.cfm products]. Look for items that end with "CTO" or "Custom." Choose the chassis you want. Then add whatever [http://www-132.ibm.com/content/home/store_IBMPublicUSA/en_US/Upgrades.html upgrades] you need that only Lenovo offers (such as WiFi). Fill in the rest of the components from other, less expensive vendors.

Update: you cant do this nowadays. They will not sell you a CTO barebone. At least you cant do it online. You might have to 'con' a sales agent.

Response to update: I did not need to con anyone. I just ordered the CTO chassis and the parts I needed from their website. I placed the order on August 18, 2005 and received all the shipments by August 26, 2005.

== Special deals for certain customer groups ==
IBM makes huge discounts to students and teachers:
{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" style="text-align:left;"
! country !! shops & target groups
|-
| Austria ||
* [http://www.studentline.at/ Studentline.at] (students, university staff, pupils and teachers)
* [http://www.notebook4u.at/ notebook4u.at] (students, pupils and teachers)
* [http://www.abax.at/academic/ ABAX] (students, pupils and teachers)
* [http://www.bostelmann.com/ Computer Bostelmann] (students, pupils and teachers)
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| France ||
*[http://www.ibm.com/easyaccess/education IBM education homepage]
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| Germany ||
*[http://www.ok1.de ok1] (students, university staff, pupils and teachers)
*[http://www.campusrabatt.de/index.php ADD Datensysteme: CampusRabatt] (students, university staff, pupils and teachers)
*[http://www.pro-com.org pro-com Datensysteme]:
**[http://www.pro-com.org/b2b pro-com b2b] (businesses)
**[http://www.nofost.de/ NOFOST] (students & university staff)
**[http://www.no4ed.de/ NOFOED] (pupils & teachers)
**[http://www.nofoch.de/ NOFOCH] (clinics and medical institutions and their staff)
**[http://www.pro-com.org/lf pro-com luf] (universities, schools & other educational and research institutes)
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| Switzerland ||
*[http://www.rabais-etudiant.ch/ Rabais-Etudiant] (students, teachers, schools)
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| United States ||
* [http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/education/ Education] (K-12 and Higher Education)
|}

== Buying on eBay ==
* Many sellers do not know exactly what they have. Get the full 7-digit machine type if at all possible. Compare it to the specifications in the *book.pdf series: twbook.pdf, tabook.pdf, tawbook.pdf, etc, to determine actual screen size, original CPU speed, original hard disk, etc.
* You can try getting the serial number as well to check the warranty status at IBMs support pages.
* Check completed auctions carefully to determine going prices for comparable machines.
* Be aware if any port covers are missing. If they are, see if any current auctions are running to check availability.
* If the unit doesn't come with a hard drive, know whether it has the caddy and cover
* Anything with a PIII or later most likely came with a Windows Certificate of Authenticity. Find out whether the listed machine does. Even if you don't want it, it may help resale value when you '''sell''' the machine.
* Read the feedback of the seller on items he has sold, especially electronics, computers and laptops. If meangranny is suddenly selling T43's after three years of lace, stay away.
* If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. There's a reason no one else is bidding on it.

Buyers Guide

2005-09-06T08:04:13Z

85.124.170.206: /* Special deals for certain customer groups */

This page is dedicated to hints about buying used or new ThinkPad models. You can find notes about typical weaknesses of used ThinkPads here and other things you should care about when choosing a ThinkPad and where to buy it.

==Only some random notes so far==
*{{390X}} models with 15" display are said to have weak display cables that tend to break.
*{{A30}}, {{A30p}}, {{A31}}, {{A31p}} seem to have a mechanical design that can cause the motherboard to break. At least there are a significant number of reports of broken motherboards on these models.
*{{T30}} had a problem with memory sockets detaching from the system board. IBM replaced these free of charge even after warranties expired.

==Build it yourself and save money==
Lenovo offers more flexibility than any other major manufacturer of laptop computers, at least that I know of. Their "configure-to-order" (CTO) offerings let you build the computer you want, without paying for anything you don't want. The basic CTO includes the mainboard and CPU, but no RAM, disk, mini-PCI cards, software, or other add-ons. You can even get a laptop in a CTO configuration.

I built my {{X32}} notebook with 1GB RAM, 60GB 5400RPM hard drive, USB DVD-ROM CD-RW drive, and 802.11a/b/g mini-PCI for a grand total of US$1,206, including tax and shipping.

Start with the complete list of [[https://www-03.ibm.com/lenovo/shop/personalpages/public/public/products/dsp_product_list.cfm products]]. Look for items that end with "CTO" or "Custom." Choose the chassis you want. Then add whatever [[http://www-132.ibm.com/content/home/store_IBMPublicUSA/en_US/Upgrades.html upgrades]] you need that only Lenovo offers (such as WiFi). Fill in the rest of the components from other, less expensive vendors.

== Special deals for certain customer groups ==
IBM makes huge discounts to students and teachers:
{| border="1" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" style="text-align:left;"
! country !! shops & target groups
|-
| France ||
*[http://www.ibm.com/easyaccess/education IBM education homepage]
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| Switzerland ||
*[http://www.rabais-etudiant.ch/ Rabais-Etudiant] (students, teachers, schools)
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| Germany ||
*[http://www.ok1.de IP-Web GmbH] (students, university staff, pupils and teachers)
*[http://www.campusrabatt.de/index.php ADD Datensysteme: CampusRabatt] (students, university staff, pupils and teachers)
*[http://www.pro-com.org pro-com Datensysteme]:
**[http://www.pro-com.org/b2b pro-com b2b] (businesses)
**[http://www.nofost.de/ NOFOST] (students & university staff)
**[http://www.no4ed.de/ NOFOED] (pupils & teachers)
**[http://www.nofoch.de/ NOFOCH] (clinics and medical institutions and their staff)
**[http://www.pro-com.org/lf pro-com luf] (universities, schools & other educational and research institutes)
|- style="vertical-align:top;"
| Austria ||
* [http://www.studentline.at/ Studentline.at] (students, university staff, pupils and teachers)
* [http://www.notebook4u.at/ notebook4u.at] (students, pupils and teachers)
* [http://www.abax.at/academic/ ABAX] (students, pupils and teachers)
|}

== Buying on eBay ==
* Many sellers do not know exactly what they have. Get the full 7-digit machine type if at all possible. Compare it to the specifications in the *book.pdf series: twbook.pdf, tabook.pdf, tawbook.pdf, etc, to determine actual screen size, original CPU speed, original hard disk, etc.
* You can try getting the serial number as well to check the warranty status at IBMs support pages.
* Check completed auctions carefully to determine going prices for comparable machines.
* Be aware if any port covers are missing. If they are, see if any current auctions are running to check availability.
* If the unit doesn't come with a hard drive, know whether it has the caddy and cover
* Anything with a PIII or later most likely came with a Windows Certificate of Authenticity. Find out whether the listed machine does. Even if you don't want it, it may help resale value when you '''sell''' the machine.
* Read the feedback of the seller on items he has sold, especially electronics, computers and laptops. If meangranny is suddenly selling T43's after three years of lace, stay away.
* If it seems to good to be true, it probably is. There's a reason no one else is bidding on it.